Episode 7: How an English Grad Became the Worlds #1 SDR Leader

In this episode of 'Your Future on Meritt' podcast, host Will Koning, CEO and co-founder of meritt, welcomes Sian Taylor from Klaviyo. Sian, an acclaimed sales leader, shares insights into her career path, the misconceptions about sales, and the importance of empathy and active listening in the field. The discussion also delves into diversity and inclusion in sales and explores how different backgrounds contribute to the success of sales teams. With valuable advice for aspiring salespeople and a focus on the benefits of a career in sales, this episode is a must-listen for anyone considering the profession.

00:00 Introduction and Guest Welcome
01:21 Sian Taylor's Journey into Sales
04:15 The Art of Influence in Sales
12:11 Diversity and Inclusion in Sales
16:45 Empathy and Traits in Sales
20:22 Understanding Objections and Empathy in Sales
24:26 The Importance of Simplicity in Sales
29:11 Advice for Aspiring Sales Professionals
32:39 Pitching a Career in Sales at Klaviyo
35:02 Conclusion and Final Thoughts

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YFOM - Sian Taylor

[00:00:00] 

Will Koning: 

Hi, everybody. Uh, welcome to the Your future on meritt podcast with me, Will Koning, CEO and co founder of meritt. Today I'm joined with someone that is exceptional in their craft, Sian Taylor. Uh, Sian is over at Klaviyo, um, in sales management. The thing that we have in common is that we both love developing, Uh, salespeople to become exceptional.

She's won many accolades. I think global SDR leader of the year, the Wiser Elite SDR leader of the year, I believe as well. So keep me honest there, Sian, if I've got that right. But yeah, we really are with someone that really knows their craft in all the world of sales and sales development.

Thank you for joining us, Sian. How are you doing today?

Sian Taylor: Great to be here. I am doing excellent and talking about sales. As we both know we have this in common as well something we love to do

Will Koning: Something we love to do. Yeah. So one thing I [00:01:00] also forgot to say is we're both ambassadors of the SDR leaders of EMEA, which is how, how we met through our good friend, Dave Wilkins. Um, so we definitely are super, super aligned. This podcast is all about people that may be looking to get into the career, you know, we're not necessarily worried about the guys that are already on LinkedIn posting, you know, this is about those people thinking, why should I do this role?

Um, very often sales has a bad rep. And fairly, maybe unfairly, but a lot of the time you know you get I used to get pushback from my parents saying "hey why do you want to be in sales? Why don't you go and be like a banker or an accountant?" What's your story Sian? How did you get here? 

Sian Taylor: Yeah, absolutely and it's so funny you say that, I think this stigma of sales being this Wolf of Wallstreet-esque kind of environment is still so prevalent and it's just that's never the experience i've had and all the companies i've worked out which has been great so we can then cross that one off as we get further along, but i'm [00:02:00] exactly the same I don't think when I was younger sales, I mean, I'm confident sales never even crossed my mind as

something that I was going to build a career around. Um, I went to university and did English literature and I was in my final year thinking, what am I supposed to do with this degree? I've, I've got this degree now, what do, what do I do? Um, and the thing I really loved was around being able to talk to someone to understand, but also to influence, to kind of get them around to seeing my point of view, to be able to put together an argument and have people be like, well, yeah, I do see where you're coming from there, Sian.

Um, and it just so happened that I was thinking about where I can put these skills that I found recruitment. Which was my entry point into the world of sales wasn't

tech sales at that point, but it was the world of sales um, and really there were two factors that that had me accept that first [00:03:00] role the first was the ability to use those skills but shape them into a set of skills that I could then apply to Whatever job I wanted do in the future.

The foundational skills that you get in a career in sales or starting a career in sales you use everywhere! Any role uses those skills.

Um, and the second was an, from an economic standpoint is at the end of the day, a BDR in the tech sales world now earns more straight out of the gate than a fully trained nurse, or a recently certified accountant.

So the earning potential, 

Will Koning: Yeah.

Sian Taylor: the earning potential is crazy and you want to do something that you're passionate about and you want to do something that you love which look like luckily that's where I got to um, but you also want to be paid fairly for it

and the harder you work in sales the more you show up the more you are rewarded and I personally really like the meritocratic world of sales. I've always carried a [00:04:00] number. I've always been in this kind of role um, but at the end of the day didn't start out to get to this point. It kind of found me and I'm very pleased that it did.

Will Koning: Yeah. Oh my god, there's so much to unpack there. I'm gonna go right to the start. One of the things that really, really just, um, stood out for me is, you enjoy influencing outcomes, right? like who knew you could do that as a career, like maybe you could just unpack, do you know what I mean?

Like, like that's, that's an interesting point. Maybe you could just unpack that to someone like what, what that really looks like in, in, in real life.

Sian Taylor: Yeah, it's a very fancy word for effectively getting someone to do what you want them to do

Will Koning: Yeah.

Sian Taylor: But it started out with writing an essay, right? Or writing a piece of work. You're writing an essay in English You're trying to argue your point of view around why you think that This book, poem, whatever, should be read this way. Um, and I was good at it. I was good [00:05:00] at, um, public speaking. I was good at

having conversations with people. and the translation into that was, recruitment at the start. And when you think about that, it's even down to getting your sibling to do the thing you want them to do rather than the thing they want to do.

Um, that is, that's sales. That's

Will Koning: very much. 

Sian Taylor: Convincing your that you should be able to get that dog that you want. That, at the end of the day, is the heart of what

sales is. 

Will Koning: I was excellent at that. Yeah.

Sian Taylor: I 100 percent put together a PowerPoint on why I should be allowed a pet when I was

younger. So it starts early and you may not even realize that you're doing it.

So it's something as simple as that. It's

being able to listen to someone, understand the situation and put forward an idea or ask some more questions to understand why someone thinks that way,

and then have them see things through your lens or be able [00:06:00] to then come back to them with, a counter narrative if you need to, but it's all about how do you understand the situation and use things to your advantage and,

and kind of dig into it a little bit more to, um, get to that outcome that you're looking for.

Will Koning: Oh, do you know I, I absolutely love your approach to how, how you answered that. And I think it's, it's so interesting. I don't have a degree. I had too much fun at university, but you know, you've, you've clearly taken something that you learned to do from, I imagine doing lots of essays in your A levels and now your degree, and you have taken that skillset and you have applied that to how you can approach sales, because that's, I'm assuming what, what you did is, is that fair?

Sian Taylor: Yeah, absolutely. And it's not what I think is really key to say is that's not the only approach that you can

have to sales, which is beautiful. No, no two [00:07:00] people sell the same.

That was the, how I lent into where my skillset was

to give me an edge. Um, But there are so many brilliant sales people out there like you, for example, you lean way more into the technology and how that can help you when you see the world differently and approach things differently.

And

that is the power of sales. I just happen to go this way.

Do I use my degree? Maybe.

And I was writing emails as a BDR potentially, more it's more the honing of the of my approach to things that

I is is where it it Did me well when I

kind entered the world of sales.

Will Koning: It genuinely feels like we're both good salespeople, but we both probably have a very different approach. I can just tell talking to you and it's just like looking at it from your lens, you're like, Oh, that's so cool. Because like, yeah, I am so emotive. I know my tech. Yeah, you're absolutely right. And I think that's, I think anyone that's [00:08:00] listening that, you know, that maybe has, is doing an English language degree or a history degree, I imagine any kind of those things, you could just see actually, hey, Hey, You can do something with that degree.

You

Sian Taylor: And you don't have to be a teacher you don't 

Will Koning: And you don't have to 

be a teacher! 

Sian Taylor: Don't let them tell you you have to be a teacher. You don't you

can come in, at the end of the day, I lead, I lead sales teams, so you don't have to have

to be I guess I actually turned out to be a teacher, and so, oh my

Will Koning: Oh, I was about say, I'm a Yeah, I know, it's so funny. My family are all teachers, right? And I was the naughty boy at school. I just was. I was, I was the one smoking cigarettes behind the bike 

shed. I was always in, I was always in trouble and hilariously, what do I end up doing? I end up building a sales school.

Are you kidding me? Like, you know, turns out I'm the one that's actually really good at teaching. I know so many people that have gone from doing something like you're doing like something random you fall into sales, uh, and [00:09:00] then you end up teaching this thing that you've fallen in love with.

Why do you think people like you and me end up doing stuff like that?

Sian Taylor: As in going into the teaching aspect?

Will Koning: Going back into the teaching aspect afterwards, I'm just genuinely curious, I'm going off piste here. 

I think it's because of the kind of people we are. Because for me, I know, and you can tell me whether this kind of rings true for you, is while I found a lot of joy in hitting my own number, the ability to see someone else hit theirs, outstripped it by a mile, because as an individual contributor, and some people are absolute weapons of individual contributors, and that's the way they stay because that is their skill set. That is their strength.

Sian Taylor: That's where they find

joy. I found way more joy and the ceiling for me got way higher when I realized I could influence a team of nine people to all hit a hundred

percent.

And what happens at that point in [00:10:00] seeing other people build incredible sales careers, see other people step through into those next roles that they would want.

That, to me, ended up bringing a lot more joy than me

just carrying my own

individual target. It comes with its own challenges, but I think because we're so passionate about it,

 we want to share that passion and you're getting full force of my passion whether you want it or not.

Um, you're on my, if you're 

Will Koning: I can feel it. Yeah, yeah, yeah. 

Sian Taylor: it's, coming, 

Will Koning: Yeah, yeah. lucky boy and girl. Yeah, 

Sian Taylor: yeah. it's probably because we, we have that passion and we want

to share the joy with others. And that we, we personally find more joy in,

in influencing and helping as many people as we can. 

[00:11:00] 

Will Koning: I absolutely agree. I was, um, one of the first sales guys at Perkbox and we, um, we didn't have much budget to hire like, you know, normal salaries and we were paying low, and so we, we did have people that were lower caliber. I ended up being one of the first managers and I just remember we had no other choice other than to train.

Literally because we couldn't hire for experience because of the salary range and I just remember that first time seeing that first person get a deal that you had coached them on, and for me that was just it where I was like, Oh, okay. I actually really love the training. Like I get out of bed for [00:12:00] this.

You know what I mean? it is so cool being able to do that. Um, I think we could talk about that for days. There's something that I know that we were talking about offline. That's really important. It's important to me. Um, it's, I think it's important to us as a society, which is, the diversity inclusion within, within sales 

 There is the, to your point, the Wolf of Wall Street stigma. It does exist for a reason, right? It's, it, it, you know, we, there was, there has been a past. We talk about recruitment. I, I, I started my sales career in a boiler room where it was that ego macho man kind of sales. Thank God it's not like that anymore.

Um, you obviously you've done quite a lot, which I'll let you talk about now, but I'd love for you to share with the audience, like some of those, that learnings that you've done with, uh, Cambridge university. Yeah. 

Sian Taylor: Yeah.

super lucky with the way that Klaviyo views learning and development. So we have a really generous learning and development allowance [00:13:00] every year. Everybody does. And I use mine to look at a course on leading change because for me, in order to get diversity later down the line. You need diversity at the start and the challenge then becomes because I didn't hear about sales at university I didn't didn't know about the freedom that it could give you and the places you could go with it and the experiences you could have with it.

Um, you just think hear sales and think about the car salesman or Or wolf wallstreet

Will Koning: Danny DeVito, Matilda's car, salesman, 

Sian Taylor: Like not, it's not sexy. It's not like a, uh, a career that people, or at least early on are particularly proud to talk about. And that breaks my heart because not only is a tech sales, a great enabler from freedom standpoint and learning, it is also a place where I've made some of my [00:14:00] best friends,

ever in, in, in met some

incredible people. Uh, so I took this course to understand howI could challenge my own biases, how could I think bigger when it comes to the end goal of getting more women to start sales careers. Again,

Klaviyo is incredible from a female leadership standpoint,

but even diversity of background. There's a, a great book, uh, called Rebel Ideas,

um, if you haven't read it, I believe it's by Matthew Syed, um, about what happens when you don't have diversity of thought,

and it's 

Will Koning: Yeah.

Sian Taylor: TLDR, not great,

not great. So the need for diversity is not only to help businesses flourish, but because I want everyone to have the same opportunities that I have had.

I was lucky enough to, to, live where I lived and go to university and have those experiences. But I want everybody to [00:15:00] have access to a career in tech sales, regardless of

the of who you are, the

education that you've had, it doesn't matter. Like there's

no one person who's great at tech sales. Um, and that is the beauty of it.

So we should

do be doing more. And it's, I think it's our responsibility as leaders to talk about sales and to, to challenge the way things have been done. And you're, you're doing that. Incredibly with,

with your platform and 

It's 

Will Koning: called meritt, yeah. It's a meritocracy. 

We believe in equal access to education and opportunities for everybody, and then it's on the individual to progress. Which is you know everyone gets to be a salesperson if they want to be they can they can try 

to be a salesperson, right? It doesn't the best you can you couldn't have be silver spoons and have all the privilege in the world or you can 

 be from you know, the slums of Mumbai, and within that plethora of people that range you you will find great salespeople. 

 that's why it's Called meritt and [00:16:00] meritocracy. So you got you're literally talking something I've dedicated my life to as well You Um, going back, I think just to almost put it into like, you know, how it's so important to me,

 how do we attract, you know, both young women, frankly, there's not enough young women entering the sales world. And I think some of the best sales people I've ever worked with are, are women. Like literally, I've got the data to kind of prove it.

Sian Taylor: yeah. Women are actually

more likely to hit their sales targets than men are,

so 

Will Koning: like, I 

don't want to be, I don't want to be seen to be leaning either way, well, I am in it, but why, why do you think women are so good at meeting their number?

Sian Taylor: So I think, um, a lot of it, and don't get me wrong, I have incredible male sellers who

also do this,

is the better you can understand the person you are selling to, not only [00:17:00] what you're selling and what they might need, the more you can read the person. The, the better it becomes the psychology of selling is so clear. Uh, so I

think that plays a part is the, the natural skill sets, but I don't want to pigeonhole women in that way that, Oh, we're empathetic. We're

like, Oh, we're just nurturing. 

It's got 

Will Koning: that slightly negative connotation as well, doesn't it? 

Sian Taylor: I don't want to kind of pigeonhole in that way. I think a lot of it, it comes down to mindset as

well. Um, and the desire to kind of, it's, it sounds harsh, keep pushing away the stigma that male sellers are where it's at, because historically that was where you were, investment bankers were male, like your stock brokers were male, like that was the way it was. So I

think "you think sales, you think males" because they want aggression and ambition and all of those kinds of things.

And along with the outdated view of what sales is, the outdated view of what a [00:18:00] great seller is,

like the guys that I manage are not those people. They

are. Empathetic. They are thinking creatively, like all of those great things. And that just plays into today's hands because you don't have to be that person.

That's not what makes a great salesperson.

Will Koning: Indeed. How, how I got told to think about it was, um, not through sales at all. Actually it was through, through a shaman in Costa Rica, believe it or not. And he, he, he was taught, talks a lot about, um, he talks a lot about, um, it's not about whether it's a man or a woman, it's about masculine and feminine traits.

and men can have feminine traits as much as they can have masculine traits and, and, and vice versa. And, and I think what, what my take, and I'm curious to get what your thoughts are on this, it's like actually empathy, as an example, you've described lot, you know, seeing things from other people's shoes.

[00:19:00] Active listening, right, is two of these, one of these in sales, and that gets lost I think a lot. Um, I think they're quite potentially feminine traits, which is what I think why some women who have lots of feminine traits get it and then at the same time, you know, uh, you could also be that ego driven sale and you can you can still bulldoze people to do sales.

Trust me I know, you know, it's a very masculine alpha really type way of doing it. It does work in certain cases. I know that I can do it Curious to get your take on on how you see that

Sian Taylor: Yeah. So I know as, as I dutifully prepared for coming to speak to you, one of the things that we were going to get onto is, a quote that particularly comes to mind when I

think about my career, and it fits so nicely in here, like this part that we talk about, I'm going to have to jump the gun,

because when I was early in my management and still trying to find my feet, because, oh boy, did I mess up early on [00:20:00] a lot of times. Um, was "Seek to understand, before you're understood." And that

is the trick to everything in sales. Most things in life. Seek to understand before you're understood. Same goes with prospects. The more you can understand something, the better, you can make yourself understood. Always all comes back to that influencing thing is like, okay, your mom doesn't want you to have a dog.

Why? Why, why is that? Oh, I hear you mum, like why is that? Oh, it turns out that actually your mum is scared of dogs and you have to fight, like that's something you didn't know

before. So, all of it is so relative in this space and that's where your empathy and your active listening comes from

is, um, that natural need to understand the situation,

um, curiosity, it falls

into objection handling,

someone 

Will Koning: I can tell you, sound just like my objection [00:21:00] handling training. 

Sian Taylor: Yeah, because it's same It's like, Oh, that's expensive.

Oh, what do you mean by expensive?

Will Koning: all of that. how? 

Sian Taylor: Do they have? yeah. Do they have? Is it because they don't have budget for it? Is it because it just feels more? we missed the value. Like why? 

misunderstood how much 

Will Koning: this pain is costing you? Yeah, 

Sian Taylor: Exactly. Or, with discounting. Oh, I feel like I've done something wrong here. What's got us talking about discounting? Like understand,

understand, understand. It works as a seller, works double as a manager.

Will Koning: yeah, 

Sian Taylor: So that's, I think that's it. Is that, how do you, how do you get at the best grasp of the situation, the person, the, uh, the, Task at hand

to then be able to make yourself understood.

Go straight to the second part, the bulldozy, Joey bag of donuts, here's my technology, you're gonna have some of it.

Um, that's the second part.

[00:22:00] Gone are those days. The first part is where we're at. How are we

understanding? 

Will Koning: It's so interesting isn't it everyone thinks it's all like sales It's all about pitch and close, pitch and close, you know showing them the features and that will do and it couldn't be further from the truth It's like, you know that the close is in the discovery.

It's about understanding the pains understanding the value you provide from solving those pains. The impacts of the pains all of that good stuff, and we're not here to give everyone a sales lesson. So just remind everyone your favorite quote is And me for that matter, your favorite quote is

Sian Taylor: "Seek to understand before you're understood." 

And 

Will Koning: Seek to understand, before you're understood what a great quote. That is a very modern seller's quote to live by Across the board and as a 

And 

Sian Taylor: I use it so often. I use it so often and it was that VP of sales when I'd not done a good job of coaching one of the

people on my team because I just kind of bulldozed in and was[00:23:00] 

all over like, "We haven't covered these accounts off" and there was actually a very valid reason for it and

it broke our trust for a bit We got it back. But um It's that's probably my favorite quote along with "more pipeline, less problems."

Will Koning: Yeah, all day long, yeah. That's just, that's just every day, isn't it? Yeah.

I, I, think that's so important. Do you know what I think is so funny as well? Is you obviously got that quote from, uh, a very good VP of sales, I'm guessing, that's around the bush quite a bit. Um, I don't know who that person is.

I, I have a mentor that used to be the, um, CFO of HSBC UK. Hey. And he says, um, the most simplest quotes as well. And the two, the two that he always tells me, are, "it's the what, then it's the how", which is again, a very simple quote, but again, very, very, as you think about it, that's a very, very powerful thing.

And then, and then the other one, um, is, "it's a journey, not an event." And the reason why I'm bringing them up now is because they're so simple. [00:24:00] And these people, you know, Klaviyo is a newly minted IPO company. You know, there's very seriously good people in that company, like yourself, teaching this stuff.

And here I am, you know, dealing with some CFO of HSBC UK, or a former one. And again, it's, you, you'd think they'd be like rattling off the most complex of advice. Isn't it, isn't it interesting how it's literally the opposite?

Sian Taylor: Yeah. I think that's also a misconception about sales is that it's very, very complicated and you can

absolutely make sales very, very complicated,

but the beauty is often in the simplicity.

It's just being really good at understanding what's going on it's being very clear in the way that you speak to people, so if people are sat there thinking, Oh, I don't know, like, what if I don't have the skill set for it, is Like you absolutely do and whatever you don't, we will teach you

on the way. All you need is the desire to go [00:25:00] for it and to

try and to bring your whole self and to give a hundred percent of what you've got every time, because it's not complicated,

the beauty is in the simplicity

a lot of the time. 

Will Koning: I think it's important though to have a nuance between understanding simplicity is really important, but it's not necessarily easy, "simplicity", right? 

In fact, actually simple is very hard. It's easy to write an email that's 500 words long, right? It's 

actually difficult to write an email that's like 30 words long that gets, gets a response.

And that's kind of 

like job, maybe not 30, but you get my point, right?

Sian Taylor: Hmm.

Will Koning: And thinking there is simple is easy. They, they will be mistaken. 

Sian Taylor: Oh, Yeah.

Will Koning: That's a discipline 

Sian Taylor: it's it's hard and it takes a while to learn, like, one of the things I struggled with early on was attaching how I performed at work with how good of a person I was. And I think a fair few sellers go [00:26:00] through this where you're very closely aligning your value as a person with the value you're giving against a number.

 I had to spend a lot of time separating that out because it, this job is not easy,

like, it takes a lot of resilience, it takes a lot of honing of your skills, uh, being able to let yourself fail and learn, being able to keep going back over something until you have it right, or until you've kind of, um, been able to truly grasp it, and it's only after, um, years of, of keeping practicing that you could do it so easily.

Like I imagine you get this where you can very quickly tailor an email to a, to a company you're talking to, or a

situation. And it's because we practice so much. It's not because

it's an easy thing to do.

Literally. It's not because easy thing to do at all. It's because it's been honed into

us so long.

So yes, great [00:27:00] salespeople keep things nice and simple, but that simplicity is hard earned.

you

have to, you have to really want to keep going with it.

Will Koning: And I can certainly say, as someone that's gone from, you know, customer service agent to salesperson, now to tech founder, like, that skill of trying to keep things as simple as possible. It's an ongoing battle. I call our priority list the bonsai tree because you're constantly, you know, it's like that.

You have to keep it really, really, and that's how you drive simplicity, but it's an ongoing war to keep that to keep that priority list focused, you know, otherwise, and if you lose focus, oh my gosh, anything can happen. Anyway, the curse knowledge. Yeah, was about 

Sian Taylor: the more complicated you make things. And some of the best sellers are the ones that have the least experience

because they're just, they're just keeping it nice and simple. And then know, they get to know a bit and you're like, what has happened here? 

Will Koning: The curse of knowledge is such a real thing, with [00:28:00] SDRs in particular. Like, for those that don't understand, the curse of knowledge, which basically is, because you know something, it then suddenly seems easy to you, but if someone you're talking to about it doesn't understand it, it creates this like, weird dissonance, right?

And so what happens is the brand new sellers, we saw it's almost exclusive every single time in the academy. And we trained like 400 SDRs in like two years, every single time. The, when they didn't know, and they were on the phone with the customer, they go, Oh, I don't actually know the question.

Can I just ask why that's important to you? And I'll kind of find out. And they loved that, the customer loved that, and that gave them a reason to have another call and book a meeting. But as soon as the product knowledge starts seeping in, and I'm always so anti product knowledge for SDRs at the start, customer knowledge all day long, but product knowledge I'm like, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, wait, wait, wait, wait.

Because for that exact reason, whereby, whereby actually, hey, no, we need, we need you to, to understand the customer more. And instead they're going, oh, me, me, me, I know the answer. Now the [00:29:00] prospect doesn't have a reason to take another call. You know what I mean? And it just happened every time, that curse of knowledge.

I love talking about curse of knowledge if you can't tell. Um, it's such an interesting one. It's such an interesting one. Sian, we're nearly at the end. Um, so there's, we've had your quote. Um, there was one thing I always ask. I, I want you to picture Sian when she just graduated from Reading, University of my, my memory serves me right.

Was it Reading?

Sian Taylor: It was Reading, Reading University. Let's go Knights. 

Will Koning: So, So, so there you are, you know, you are just finishing that last dissertation. Thinking, what on earth am I doing with my, with my life with this English degree? what three pieces of advice would you give graduate Sian when it comes to what we've been discussing?

Sian Taylor: What would I give, three pieces of advice, would I give graduates, Sian? Number one is, trust me, that if you work hard, good things will come. Number two [00:30:00] is, you are not a doctor, this is not life or death,

Will Koning: Hmm,

Sian Taylor: you have to let it go.

Will Koning: yeah,

Sian Taylor: Another good quote is, if you won't remember it in five years, don't spend more than five minutes on, like, worrying about something,

because oh boy, did I act like I was doing open heart surgery and it was, the world about to end a lot of

the time across my career. 

Will Koning: Yeah, yeah, yeah 

Yeah 

Sian Taylor: and what is meant for you will not pass you by. If you keep putting yourself out there and you keep trying and you keep chipping away and going after opportunities, the things will line up for you. Uh, cause sometimes it's a bit hard to, as you kind of slogging through something, cause it's not always a breeze.

Like we didn't get, neither of us got to this point with a absolutely nice, smooth, straight line. And

Will Koning: It, it's never a hockey stick curve, is it? No, 

no, no. 

Sian Taylor: we, we went through some, so I think they would they

would be the, the key things is like keep [00:31:00] working hard and know it will come to something.

It's not life or death, you are not an open heart surgeon, and what's meant for you will not pass you by.

Will Koning: And, and to any young women thinking about sales, what would you 

Sian Taylor: Oh, just do it. Just do it, because even if you do it and you don't like it, the skills that you build in sales will get you so many places. It's the same skill set for customer success, for account management, for

marketing, for going into being teaching, teachers, product, whatever. Like,

the skill set that you learn in sales. is the base skill set for so many things, and if you're on the fence about it, just try. Like, believe me, it's not, like a lot of the time, it's not what you think it is,

and if you're sat there worrying that you've only got a certain amount of the skills, We will teach you the rest.

Never hire on skills when it's so early in career.

It's always,

can I see that fire? Can I see that fire? I [00:32:00] can teach you how to write a good email. that's not, the point.

Will Koning: not, not the half. 

Yeah, yeah, that's that's actually like 

Sian Taylor: give it a try. 

Will Koning: Heh 

Sian Taylor: Oh yeah, exactly. Exactly. Motivating you to keep going when things get

sticky. Oh, that's, that's hard part. 

Will Koning: Yeah, yeah. I, I, I think that's amazing. Look, and I think that advice also rings true to anyone looking to get into sales. Whether, you know, 

a male, female, you know, different ethnic minorities, uh, majority, whatever it might be. I'm kind of bored of all the labels, frankly.

I just think 

everyone be in sales, so , 

Sian Taylor: Whoever you are, 

Will Koning: whoever you are. Yeah, there, there is a potential route for you if you've got that fire. Um, and there's loads things there. So we are of course, a sales podcast Sian, so we do want to give you that moment to unashamedly pitch us something that you want to tell the world about.

Um, so yeah, go, go for it. Sian. What, what are you selling us today?

Sian Taylor: What am I selling you? So the first thing I came on here was to sell you a career in sales. So[00:33:00] 

Will Koning: you've done that,

Sian Taylor: Hopefully

Will Koning: hiring at Klaviyo? 

Sian Taylor: uh, we are, we are hiring at Klaviyo. Um, so hopefully I've sold you

on career in sales, um, Klaviyo, as Will mentioned, uh, we newly minted IPO. It's a Martek software.

Um, and we found our feet in the e-commerce vertical.

So

all those great emails you get saying, Hey, you forgot this in your basket. They come

from Klaviyo we help brands to, uh, to really understand who those shoppers are,

um, and how they can best create experiences for them. And we are hiring, we are hiring across our inbound team, which is a excellent place to first learn your, um, skills and sales. Some of our mid market reps now were inbound reps back in the day and have gone through that full journey. So big promote from within culture at Klaviyo, which is

great. Um, but if you've had a bit of experience, or you've done a course, we have outbound roles. If you've come across this [00:34:00] podcast and you're a seasoned seller, let's talk.

I'm hiring on my entrepreneur, AE team, we're

hiring an SMB and mid market, but super growth over here, and at the end of the day, if you want to chat about getting into sales, um, please do reach out. I'm

always, always open to advice. Even if I can't give you a pathway myself, anything that

I can do, I'll Always. do. 

Will Koning: I, look, I just, like, honestly, like, with, with Klaviyo, you know, that L& D budget sounds amazing, at least in itself. I mean, any company that's going to invest in your learning and development, you know, go for things like that, even if 

you what, most of you probably don't know what e commerce and MarTech probably really means, just, even 

Sian Taylor: yeah, it's a great, basically, it's a great company 

Will Koning: It is 

you can clearly see like the calibre of leadership like yourself 

you know, I know 

some, a 

Sian Taylor: Oh, gonna make me blush. I won't fit out of the room

Will Koning: Wow, you know, you can be a bit charming in sales, can't you? So, but like the point, the point being is like, you can clearly see anyone that's listening that the caliber of leadership that, that is at this company.

 I'd be going for it if I [00:35:00] was, uh, looking for a sales role. So guys, uh, Sian, first off, thank you so much. I've enjoyed getting to know you because we've been crossing paths for so long. We did a course with Dave the other day, and now we finally got to know each other a bit better and we've got to learn,

and we are so. wildly aligned. I can't wait to one day have a beer with you and talk through more about 

about, about, about that stuff. Um, but thank you for being here. Thank you everyone for listening if you've got this far. Um, yeah, see you all soon and remember your future, it's on meritt.

[00:36:00] 

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